Taylor Gates is an Indiana native who earned her BFA in Creative Writing from the University of Evansville. She fell in love with entertainment by watching shows about chaotic families like Full House, The Nanny, Gilmore Girls, and The Fosters.
After college, she moved to Los Angeles to pursue a career as a writer, editor, and filmmaker. Today, she’s a sucker for dramedies — especially coming-of-age stories centering around complex female and LGBTQ+ characters. She has been with Collider since May 2022.
Editor’s Note: The following contains spoilers for VisionQuest Episode 7.
- In an interview with Collider, T’Nia Miller breaks down Jocasta and Ultron’s complex relationship.
- Miller reveals how motherhood and Edgar Allan Poe helped her understand her character.
- The actress also dives into Jocasta’s biggest moments in Episode 7 and shares which MCU characters she wants her to interact with.
T’Nia Miller is a true powerhouse performer. Her range is incredible, spanning everything from intense horror and devastating drama to trippy sci-fi and political thriller. She has a long list of impressive credits, including Mike Flanagan series The Haunting of Bly Manor and The Fall of the House of Usher; Russell T. Davies shows Years and Years, Banana, and Cucumber; Apple TV’s Foundation; and Sex Education.
Her newest role is Jocasta in Marvel’s VisionQuest. Mysterious, ambitious, and endlessly fascinating, we are first introduced to Jocasta as the Butcherbird Killer before finding out that she’s actually an AI version of the brilliant scientist Josephine Carrington. She’s hellbent on controlling humanity, and yet, Miller doesn’t play her as a straightforward evil villain by any means. She’s highly complicated and morally grey, which really comes out during her spicy and twisted but also surprisingly moving scenes with Ultron (James Spader).
Collider got the chance to speak to Miller about her work on the series. During the conversation, she broke down Ultron and Jocasta’s complex, irresistible dynamic, all those references to motherhood and Edgar Allan Poe, those major reveals in Episode 7, and more.
‘VisionQuest’s T’Nia Miller Explains Jocasta and Ultron’s Unique Relationship
“Those peaks and troughs are so wonderful as an actor.”
COLLIDER: I absolutely love your character and performance. You’re kind of playing multiple roles in one, between Butcherbird Killer, AI Jocasta, and human scientist Josephine Carrington. How did you approach bringing all of these identities together into this one character?
T’NIA MILLER: Well, I think she is just one identity. I think we’re multifaceted — I think we’re all of those people. Although Jo Carrington isn’t a genocidal maniac, mass murderer, serial killer, I do believe that, at the core of Jocasta, she is Jo Carrington, right? So it all stems from that place. And then the other things are just circumstantial, as it were. It’s just like, “Which hat am I wearing today?” I’m sure a different side of Taylor shows up when you’re with your friends, when we’re with your mom, when you’re at work, so that’s how I see it.
That’s so interesting. I think you’re right — you peel back all of these layers of her. I absolutely love her dynamic with Ultron because it’s so twisted and sexy, but also kind of pure and sweet at the same time. Were there any specific conversations or exercises you did with James to build that dynamic that’s so unique and also authentic at the same time?
MILLER: The first time I met James was on set.
MILLER: Yeah, we were about to shoot a scene, but we were shooting chronologically. So that first meeting was in Episode 5, and we were sitting with [director] Vincenzo Natali. I love working with Vincenzo. I’ve worked with him before, so I instantly felt comfortable. It is a cat-and-mouse game. It’s like, “I’m going to seduce and flirt with you” because it’s her language. “You have something that’s mine, so I’m going to get it.” And James is doing Ultron in that space. The writing is there, so you’re doing what’s on the page. It also happened to be my audition piece for Jocasta, so I sort of felt like I knew it. That was my intro into her world, and we just built it from there. And as the series went along, so did their relationship — Jocasta and Ultron’s — as did James and my relationship, and understanding, and care.
I remember there was one night where I couldn’t remember my lines, and I was just having a moment. We were in Madripoor. It was tiny — it was, like, four lines or something — and he says, “I think he’d hold you. Is it okay if I hold you for this scene? I’ll just hold you to support you. I said, “Thank you. I apologize. I’m so sorry.” He said, “You never have to apologize to me.” He held my arm, and I know that, at that moment, that was James.
That’s so sweet. I love that. You can really feel the chemistry on screen. One of my favorite scenes in the show is the beginning of Episode 6 where Jo is like, “This is chess, except they’re my pieces, my board, and I’m the queen.”
MILLER: I wanted to swear on that! I wanted to say, “I’m the MFB.”
We’ll know in our hearts that she was supposed to say that! Can you talk about that line and that scene in general? There’s so much going on under the surface. It really is a chess game.
MILLER: It is chess. These are their tactics. They’re just deploying whatever skills they have, and hers is, “Well, you obviously like me, so I’m going to lean into that.” Then that explodes in her face, but that was a lot of fun — the twists and turns and, at any given moment, who has the upper hand. Those peaks and troughs are so wonderful as an actor — it’s the really good stuff to play.
‘VisionQuest’s T’Nia Miller Breaks Down That Unexpected Parallel to Her Famous Mike Flanagan Character
“It’s a tale as old as time.”
Image via Netflix
Image via Netflix
Image Via Netflix
Image via Netflix
Image via Disney+
Image via Disney+
Image via Netflix
Image via Netflix
Image Via Netflix
Image via Netflix
Image via Disney+
Image via Disney+I noticed the language that’s used to describe Jocosta is so maternal. She’s called the mother of artificial intelligence, and she refers to the nanos as her children. I’m curious how that language impacted your understanding of her because I thought that was a really interesting choice.
MILLER: It really impacted it, actually. Because for me, I was going to rescue my children. She’s like, “I like you, and I’m attracted to you, but you are not gonna get in the way. You can’t distract me from saving my children.” And I am a mother, so I was able to pull from those experiences of fighting for your kids. You have to. I’ve had to fight for my kids at times in their lives, so that really informed how, no matter what distraction there was, I had to keep my objective firm and clear until those later scenes. I’m like, “Okay, what is my objective? Why am I doing this? What is that about?” And she starts to crumble and question herself, and she begins to understand herself and what has happened to her, which is ultimately sad, and the scars of that trauma.
Four villains, and four arguments the films were honest enough to
actually let them make. Here is the one you lean towards, the part of it that holds up, and the
exact point where it stops holding up.
You align with the one who was right about the problem and wrong
about the solution. Killmonger is the most persuasive villain Marvel has produced because
the film never pretends his anger came from nowhere.
- You notice who was abandoned and you cannot let it go, which is a moral instinct before
it is anything else. - His argument lands because Wakanda really did watch and do nothing, and the film makes
T’Challa admit it out loud. - Where it breaks is the method, since a man who was failed by power decided the answer
was to hold more of it. - Michael B. Jordan plays him as somebody performing certainty over grief, which is why
the last scene of that film still works.
You align with the protector, which is the most understandable
and most dangerous position on this list. Namor is not chasing power or revenge, he is doing
whatever keeps his people hidden, and he has been doing it for centuries.
- Your loyalty has a hard border around it, and everything inside that border matters far
more to you than anything outside it. - Talokan is the best realised world Marvel has built since Wakanda, and the film makes
you understand exactly what he is guarding. - His logic is airtight right up until it requires somebody else’s people to pay for his
people’s safety. - He would rather be feared by the surface world forever than trust it once, and history
has given him reasons.
You align with the patient one, the only man on this list with no
powers, no army and no hurry. Zemo lost his family in Sokovia and then spent years working
out that you do not fight the Avengers, you introduce them to each other’s secrets.
- You go quiet when you are hurt, and the quiet is where the thinking happens.
- Zemo is the only MCU villain who completely won, and he did it with a notebook, a plan
and a great deal of self control. - His grief is real, and the film is careful never to let you forget that he started as an
ordinary man with a family. - Where it fails is the cost, since taking apart the people who hurt him meant hurting a
great many people who did not.
You align with the one who decided the answer was arithmetic.
Thanos is not angry and not grieving in any way he will admit to, he simply reached a
conclusion and never once revisited it, which is precisely what makes him frightening.
- You are capable of holding a position that costs you everything, and you would call that
conviction rather than stubbornness. - Infinity War works because it is structured as his film, with a goal, a journey and a
sacrifice, and the heroes are the obstacle. - The flaw in the plan is not the cruelty, it is that he never seriously considered a
single alternative to it. - Josh Brolin plays him tired rather than triumphant, which is the choice that turned a
purple giant into a real character.
I thought it was also so interesting that there are all these references to “The Raven” and Edgar Allan Poe. I’m curious what you think her ties to that theme say about her, too.
MILLER: She looks to nature for her answers. It’s not my first venture with Edgar Allan Poe because I did The Fall of the House of Usher. I was like, “Oh, this is great that it’s showing up again.” It’s so funny because I kept seeing starlings all around me during that. I always see these starlings. There’s so much to be taken from Poe and his view of the world, and I think that Josephine Carrington and Poe potentially have the same outlook in some ways on our humanity, or lack thereof, and where we should be heading. It’s a tale as old as time.
I love that you mentioned Fall the House of Usher. That and Bly Manor are where I first became familiar with your work. I’m curious if you had any conversations with Terry about your experience with that material or if it was a complete coincidence.
MILLER: I think it was a complete coincidence. Terry’s got a million thoughts in his brain at once, and of course, there’s a writers’ room.
‘VisionQuest’s T’Nia Miller Unpacks Jocasta’s Biggest Moments of Episode 7
“I’ve got this anger — this displaced anger — and I don’t know where it comes from.”
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Image via Disney+</figure>
Episode 7 sees the client wanting to restore Jo’s memories, which is a concept that really scares her. She says she’s not really sure she’s ready to be her again. Why do you think that fear runs so deeply in her?
MILLER: I think it’s a fear that runs through all of us. It’s a fear of the unknown. If I may, as humans, we feel like we have some element of control and that we know something, and actually, we know nothing, and we control nothing. I think that’s just an echo of that. Why doesn’t she want to know? Because that’s a person. How did she get in this mess in the first place? Did she have a hand in it? Is it her fault? Who is she gonna have to face? Do I have to face my shadow self? Like, that’s scary. What if I was wrong? What have I done? What’s that going to unmask? I think she’s genuinely petrified of what that means and where that may lead because she’s unstable. She says, “I’ve got all these memories, and I don’t know why I feel this anger, and I don’t know where it comes from.” That’s a trauma for so many women, especially as they get older — it starts to creep up on you. I’ve got this anger — this displaced anger — and I don’t know where it comes from. You know you have to go back and do the work, don’t you? I think that’s it. I’m sorry to get all philosophical.
No, that’s so beautifully said, and I think that’s so true! It stands in such an interesting contrast to that moment in Episode 6 where Ultron insists that he wants to know her, even though it’ll be painful. What do you think his desire to deeply understand her means to her?
MILLER: Here’s a really terrible analogy: It’s like you’re faced with a mountain of dishes, and someone says, “You wash, I’ll dry.” [Laughs] It’s like, “Okay, I feel supported now. That’s a surprise. Do I have a companion in you? Can I trust you?” I think, for her, it’s everything — to be able to share it, to be able to be understood.
We get a flashback at the end of Episode 7 where it’s revealed that Josephine won the Stark Award with her partner, and the two of them vowed to be loving gods. I’m curious what that choice of words sort of tells you about her.
MILLER: Well, I think he says gods, and she says, “Yeah, but we’ll be loving gods.” There’s a little bit of ego. They’ve managed to do this thing, and they’re gonna save humanity. They’re gonna save the world. She couldn’t save her father, but she’s gonna save everybody else from going through that pain and then some. That’s kind of a godlike, badass thing to do, right?
‘VisionQuest’s T’Nia Miller Reveals Her Dream MCU Crossovers
“That would be very, very, very cool.”
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Image via Disney+</figure>
I really hope that we get to see more of her in the MCU. Are there any characters you would like to see her interact with, in particular?
MILLER: Well, [everyone from] Black Panther. I’ve worked with Letitia Wright twice before, so let’s make it three. We did a play that was written by Danai Gurira, who is also in Black Panther, bizarrely and oddly enough. It was fringe theater earning pennies years and years ago. And then we did a queer show, Cucumber and Banana, with Russell T. Davies. That would be just interesting because it’s a small universe. I think Loki. Wanda.
MILLER: More of Ultron, please and thank you. I’m going to broadly say the Avengers. I’ll just go on forever and ever and ever.
These are amazing. I’m wanting a Jennifer Kale moment. She has this potion background, so she’s in STEM, too. I think it could be really fun.
MILLER: Oh my god, that would be cool. That would be very, very, very cool. I see that.
You get to do so many cool action scenes in this show. You’re kicking ass, to put it bluntly. What was stuntwork on this like for you? What was the training process?
MILLER: Very early on, I had a few rehearsals, and then I looked at Chloe Kibble, who is my stunt double, and I went, “Okay, Chloe — you’re up. You are much better at it than I am.”
MILLER: In The Peripheral and Bly Manor, I got to do some of my own stunts — or part of them — and that was cool. Paul does a lot of his, but this was very, very much Chloe Kibble, who was brilliant and is brilliant. Shoutout to Chloe. I can do a few punches and kicks and stuff, but not the whole fight scene.
VisionQuest is streaming on Disney+.
VisionQuest
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